Some bloggers are deciding if UTEP would be better off back in the WAC rather than staying in Conference USA.

Some history (many of you real-smart bloggers already know this):

The WAC used to be made up of the present Mountain West teams: BYU, Utah, New Mexico ... The WAC is now the league where teams desperate to remain Division I-A in football try to remain alive.

The WAC schools' chronology: The better Pacific Coast Athletic Association teams went to the Big West. Then, when the good WAC teams bolted to form the Mountain West, the good Big West teams filled the void in the WAC. Schools staying behind in both cases do not play Division I-A football anymore.

Then, when the WAC looked a tad weak (money from TV contracts), the Texas WAC teams (UTEP, SMU and Rice), along with Tulsa, went to C-USA, which had just lost its national-caliber basketball teams to the Big East. UTEP was supposed to clean up in its basketball division.

Nowadays, the WAC (West) and Mid-American (Midwest/Mid-East) are last-standers among Division I-A conferences.

So, look for Boise State, because of its football team, to be admitted to the Mountain West as soon as possible. And Nevada and Fresno State will be fighting to get in, too.

Good football schools don't want to be in the WAC. Teams in the WAC part of the country want to be with the old WAC (now Mountain West): Brigham Young, Utah, Wyoming, Air Force, Colorado State, New Mexico, UNLV, Air Force, San Diego State and newest member TCU.

If the Mountain West goes to 12 schools, so it can have two six-team divisions then ...

You guessed it. UTEP will be fighting hard with Boise State, Fresno State and Nevada to be one of the two.

Why two six-team divisions? So football division winners can play a national TV game (make money) for the right to go to a bigger bowl. Like the Big 12 and the Southeastern Conferences, as an example.

Remember the schools that bolted the WAC to form the Mountain West left UTEP behind. UTEP was awful in football then. The Miner program offered the WAC nil as far as making TV money.

A year ago at this time, UTEP would have looked good to the Mountain West because its football and basketball teams were filling the stands and both were making post-season appearances.

UTEP would love to be back in the Mountain West, not the WAC.

Comments

[BigTimeSchool]

Thank you Joe for putting those Wacky Aggies in there place.

[SM]

Hardly putting the "Wacky Aggies" in our place, Joe only makes my point that the ideal goal for NMSU and UTEP is to be in the Mountain West. That's nothing new. It looks like good ole Joe is trying to suck up to the Miners once again by taking shots at the Aggies.

Again, however, the WAC's strength has been overlooked. The WAC teams went 3-1 in bowl games this season, with Hawaii slamming ASU, SJSU embarrasing UNM in Albuquerque, and well...that Boise win.

To be sure, nobody will argue that the WAC is as good as the MWC is generally, but to dismiss it as an undesirable camp ground for teams that are left out is incorrect. I guess Joe got sucked in this Miner superiority junk.

[jwest]

I do find it hard to connect with Marshall, UCF, E. Carolina and the rest of the east teams. With that said, I think we are better off in the Conf USA then the WAC at this time. As far as the Mountain West, they would never allow the Miners in their elite little club..

[Nathan Dettmer]

Wow, would that be something. It would be great to see UTEP in the MWC.

That "CUSA gives us east coast exposure blah blah blah" is weak. Boise St. doesn't have any east coast exposure with the Wac, so they go out and got it themselves. And thats exactly what UTEP should do.

If the opportunity were to present itself I say we jump ship. Being back with our true rivals would really help attendance.

As for the Texas argument, we will still make trips to the DFW-plex every other year so that would not be a problem recruiting wise.

"But CUSA has a better tv contract."

Well not for long if we keep going O for whatever in bowls and are only a 1 bid NCAA league. I am sure that in the near future with Boise (football), UNLV (BB is back),and the others, the MWC's TV deal will surpass CUSA's.

I say yes to the Moutain West! Lets start campaigning now!!

[BigTimeUTEP]

AGGIES,
Thats our point.. When you do good in the WAC you graduate to a better conf.
Don't take stabs at Joe he is only stating the facts. You guys are about 4 years away from being considered by anouther conf,
Don't forget you guys were almost booted out of D-1. Don't think your safe yet. You guys still have alot to prove. I for one still have you slated as avg. D-2 school at best.

[Reggie Rules!]

SM,
Correction, the WAC went 4-1 in bowls. The only loss was Nevada's nail biter vs. the Miami Hurricanes.
C-USA went 1-4 in bowl games.

I would put the WAC's top teams (NMSU, Nevada, Utah St, and Fresno St.) vs. the Moutain West's (BYU, Air Force, UNLV and San Diego St) best.
We can go toe to toe in BB and we can split in the W-L columns, easily!

Since C-USA has a bunch of weaklings. I also like our top four vs. Memphis.

The Mountain West is not better than the WAC (at least this year), the WAC is turning heads!

You graduate to a better conference? C-USA??? Quit smoking that stuff!

[Steven G.]

Why would we want to go to the MWC? Good riddance to the lot of those teams.

I'd rather see us in the WAC again, but am fine with the CUSA.

As far as CUSA vs. WAC...for this year, and myabe last, the WAC is better in both football and basketball. If you look at the Sagarin ratings, the WAC is one position in front with the MWC ranked just ahead fo the WAC. And it's a close thing between the three conferences.

We're better off where we are.

[SM]

UTEP, you guys are hurting for some people who can make decent arguments. NMSU is a D-2 school at best? "BigTime" if that is your argument, stop shaming yourself: turn off the computer, walk away, and console yourself with the knowledge that you don't know how to engage in coherent debate. You're making UTEP fans look bad.

[RJ]

The bottom line is you have look at reality as opposed to fantasy.
When I introduced this discussion, I was looking at the reality of UTEP's present situation.
There's no doubt in anyone's mind that UTEP would love to be in the Mount.West, that's obviously a given.
But is the Mount. West going to expand?
I feel the only way they do that is if the PAC-10 decides to expand to 12 teams, most likely taking BYU and Utah in the process. Then maybe UTEP joins the MWC when they scramble for re-alignment
As it stands right now,
BYU runs the show in the MWC, if they wanted UTEP then they would have taken them instead of inviting TCU to the conference a year ago.
TCU doesn't give them the rivalry aspect UTEP does, but gives them the DFW market.
Plus like Joe said UTEP was good enough last year and the year before to possibly get invited.
So UTEP in the MWC is moot discussion and complete fantasy at this point.
So what about the present, I stated in the previous blog why I thought UTEP was a much better fit for the WAC right now than
C-USA, so I'm not going into that again.
But I watched the C-USA tournament games yesterday and there was absolutely no one in Memphis to see these games...I think they gave away free tix to some of those games.
C-USA is spread so far and the rivalries just aren't there at this point to make these games relevant.
If UTEP can't be in the MWC, then they should be in the WAC. Much better rivalries and more attractive to the fans.
I think Boise in the BCS and Hawaii's heisman candidate make them a good mid major football conference. Their top tier basketball teams are solid.
If Boise leaves,(which i seriously doubt)then so be it, but for now, the present, UTEP should be in the WAC.
This was a long post...sorry everybody.

[oscar]

i look at like this if the WAC is much better than CUSA can somebody explain to me how can the 10 seeded team in CUSA, UTEP, went toe to toe with the 2nd in the WAC, NMSU, this year.

[Reggie Rules!]

Oscar,
With a rivalry. All records out the window. You better than that.

At the end.
A win is win, and a loss is a loss.

You can lose by 30 or by one. It's still a loss.

[Jon]

I really don't think UTEP should be in the WAC. This previous year the WAC had a better turn out in Football and Basketball. But that does not necessarily make them a better conference. If the WAC can keep up this pace for a couple of years then maybe they can be considered one of the better conferences but as it is right now, the are a one year wonder.

As for the case in basketball that Aggie fans are making for the WAC being better, when its all said and done the WAC is only going to be a 1 bid conference. Well unless NMSU can run the table and win thier conference tournament (which I think is highly possible). So I don't buy into this arguement that the WAC is a better basketball conference then C-USA. Oh and its funny how many of you Agiie fans always try and dismiss Memphis as a legitimate contender before you even try and make your arguement. You don't see UTEP fans blowing off Boise St. as a legitimate team in football. Maybe because we have played in previous years and know what they are all about.

Which brings me to my next arguement. C-USA teams and WAC Teams don't even play each other so there is almost no data to determine which conference is better. All you Aggie fans talk tough and say that you think the top four teams in the WAC could beat Memphis but you know you can say that because you won't ever play Memphis.

However, in the long run all that really matters is football. Unless your the Big East. And even though C-USA had a down year last year, they are showing a lot of promise. At least in the west Division. Houston has proven to be a solid football team. They just need to find a replacement for Kolb. Tulsa is always good and has a lot of pieces coming back from last years team to make a legitimate run at the title. Rice poved last year that they are an up and coming team. SMU proabably has the Best QB in the conference with Willis at the Helm. And Tulane.....ummmm well, they ummm..... they um got to return to New Orleans last year? Ok so besides Tulane, every team in the West Division looks like they will be competative. UTEP has their work cut out for them if they want to make a legitimate run at the title next year. Its not going to be easy.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that both conferences are pretty much even. The success of individual teams will vary from year to year making one conference look like they had a better year. The only real constants in these two conferences are Boise St in football and memphis in basketball. UTEP should stay in conferences USA because then they can stay with thier recruiting base in this state. Outside of NMSU, most WAC schools Are miles away from El Paso. It just makes more sense to be in a conference that has a division which is mainly made up of Texas schools, 1 oklahoma school and a loiusiana school.

[SM]

Jon, not all Aggies are pushing the argument that Memphis is weak. I'll admit right here that Memphis could take any WAC team, except for Nevada, who I think is better than Memphis. Not looking at the conferences, I think Nevada has better shooters than Memphis and a stronger inside-outside game.

I don't think most Aggies are trying to say the WAC is per se a better conference than C-USA. Our argument (or, at least my argument) is that these last couple of years, the WAC has been stronger, but the tide can certainly shift in C-USA's favor next year. Typically solid football teams like UAB, Southern Miss (I think), and Memphis really struggled this year, while WAC teams stayed consistent with previous years.

The argument we are making is the same: both conferences are relatively equal. The problem is that many Miner fans are glued to this idea of superiority over their Aggie bretherin. This notion is unfounded and completely wanting of any support in reason or statistics. It's overplayed and it looks sad on years where the Miners should suck it up and look towards the future.

Regarding the conferences, the Miners would be better off in the WAC because of proximately, not the relative strength of the conference. Again, Texas does not claim El Paso (although they should, we're all ruled by Perry, Cornyn and Hutchinson), so the fact that UTEP shares a conference with SMU, Rice and Houston is irrelevant.

[liebestraum]

OK, Joe -

If UTEP moves to the MWC, I don't get to see them play in person as often.

Since you brought up the idea, I'm holding you responsible. Send me an e-mail and I'll give you an address where you can send my reimbursements for the plane and hotel tickets when I go watch games in Utah, Colorado, et. al.

Ball's in your court, Joe.

Thanks in advance.

lieb

[BleedingOrange]

I, too, prefer us in the WAC. Realistically, going back is a stretch. I believe UTEP would have to pay some kind of exit fee from CUSA. I'm sure there are other expenses as well. Plus, a return would be an admission that school administration made a mistake (which I can't imagine them doing). Finally, would the WAC even want us back?

Anyone else hear yesterday evening on the sports radio show that some guy named Don, his last name escapes me, would like to see UTEP back in the WAC? Not sure what he knows about basketball, though a local stadium is named after him.

[Jon]

SM,

I agree with everything you said except your last comment that UTEP should be in the WAC. Like I had stated before, Outside of NMSU, all the WAC schools are hundreds of miles away. The west Division of C-USA makes a lot more sense because those Texas schools are closer and because UTEP does the Bulk of their recruiting in the state of Texas.

However, some of you guys think it makes more geographic sense to put UTEP in the WAC but it actually does not. NMSU Aside, the closest school to UTEP is Utah St. which is about 744 miles away. In contrast, 4 out of the other 5 schools in the western division of C-USA are closer. Even Houston and Rice are closer. They are only 672 miles away.

Granted the East division teams are miles away but UTEP only plays half of them a year and half of those games are played in El Paso.

And for those of you who think the rest of Texas does not want or care for El Paso, heres a quick history lesson. When the boundaries for Texas were being drawn, they purposely drew a line out westward from the Pan Handle to the Rio Grande just so that they could get El Paso in the state. thats why Texas has that big nose that sticks out westward. El Paso wasn't magically and conveniently located at the most western tip of Texas. It was drawn in on purpose so the Texas could get the major railroad that passes through here. The rest of the land that was east of the Rio Grande, which had Originally belonged to the Republic of Texas, (also included parts of Sante Fe)was given to the New Mexico territory which later on became the State of New Mexico. Oh but Texas was going to make sure they kept El Paso.

Anyway, I think it just makes more geographical and recruitng sense to have UTEP in C-USA then in the WAC. I really don't see any benefits of being in the WAC.

[Maven]

Went to the Aggie-Boise St. game last night with an Aggie friend. Saw a number of Miner fans in attendance. Was a rockin' time. Good game. Can't wait for us to get a CUSA tournament in the Don.

Promises to be a good game tonight. Good luck to the NMSU Aggies.

[Reggie Rules!]

Let's settle this.
We know the bowl records of both conferences.

How many teams from C-USA and the WAC will see some, postseason action(NCAA & NIT)?

I predict four teams from the WAC and one from C-USA.

As for Memphis being weak.
Not sure but, they did get 15 wins vs. cream puffs. That hurts their credibility a bit.
They should be 2-3 seed next week.

Let's see what selection Sunday has to say about my picks.

[SA]

Regarding potential conference re-alignments. We should all keep in mind that athletic conferences have many criteria that need to be satisfied before inviting a university to join, strength of athletic program is just one. Probably the least recognized, and most important is strenght of academic programs as demonstrated by graduation rates among the student body as a whole. We are in the low 20%, BYU and AF in the Hi 90's. In order for UTEP to get invited to join the mtn west we should keep in mind that UTEP is a tier 3 or 4 school while the mtn west schools are tier 1 or 2 in their respective states. With the exception of Air Force all the MW schools have post grad programs such as law, medicine, vetinary etc. With that in mind UTEP is going to not only have to improve athletically which we have done, but acad. which we have not done, in fact we have regressed. Another point is that from an over all operating budget ours is about 25% of UNM's $260 mil vs something in excess of $1.2 bil which is probably one of the reasons that we were not invited to join when the conference what created. Just "food for thought".

[Lowercase Ray]

As was brought out in a previous post it all costs money to change conferences. The two years prior to us leaving the WAC, UTEP's BB team got into the NCAA Tourney. The FB team also made a bowl trip their last year in the WAC. Due to us leaving we got no financial benefit from those endeavors, that all gets divided by the teams in the conference a couple of years after the fact. Then there are the fees for leaving and for joining a conference. Now that we've been through that process we've started to benefit from being with C-USA. To turn around and lose out on those benefits and then turn around and have to pay joining fees again doesn't make to much sense. We were in the WAC for some 30 years before we changed conference, you just don't change conference as if you were changing underwear; you'd tend to lose your shirt. Besides we still get to play our two closest neighbors every year without having to change conference. A school doesn't get to change conference when they want, they must be invited; and unless I've been asleep, I don't remember the WAC or MWC inviting UTEP? If you remember there is a certain commissioner in the WAC who doesn't remember us to fondly. And as for the MWC they didn't see fit to invite us back when they broke up the WAC, what makes anyone think they've changed their mind? NMSU congradulations on going to the dance, I'm sure you'd be congradulating us if we were going!

[Gabe]

I think UTEP going to the MWC would be great. I'm not putting CUSA down but they don't belong there because of UTEP's location. Sure we play some teams in Texas but the schools that are way out in the East Coast is ridiculous. Stay in the Southwest where travel is easier and rivalries can be renewed.

[BleedingOrange]

Even though some of us would like to be back in the WAC, it isn't going to happen. We have to give CUSA a chance. As long as we don't lose Memphis to another conference in BB or some of our stronger football schools, CUSA will be fine.

Congrats to the Aggies on their win. Great to have a close-by team, for those who don't want to hear the Aggies are local, going to the tournament.

[ernesto]

NMSU wins........so what now UTEP fans....seems like your team didn't make it this year..

Its ok if you write bad mouth the aggies, but for now, im enjoying this WAC championship..

Losers

[Steven G.]

Gee ernesto, is that the best you got? Heck, you don't even make a decent Aggie fan. Am surprised they let you in the Pan Am with a whimpy post like that.

You post reads like someone who is TRYING to sound like an Aggie fan (but who really isn't).

;-)

[Jon]

lol, Ernnesto has a lot pent-up-anger. Looks like he has been waiting 3 years to say that. Haha thats funny but hey, Aggie fans earned it.

But come on Ernesto, Focus, you are gearing all your attention to the wrong Texas school.

You should be more worried about Kevin Durant (Probably the best player in the country) and friends instead of Miner fans.

You'll need all the help you can get, Texas isn't exactly a WAC or C-USA or any other bottom feeding conference school that we have been agrueing over lately.

Good Luck Aggies.